0:02
Did you know we make 35,000 decisions a day? Yes, you heard me right 35,000 decisions. And while most of them don’t even register as conscious choices, these are micro negotiation that are constantly happening inside our brain.
0:18
Just like if you’ve decided to continue to listen to this episode, that too is an example of a negotiation that your brain just completed. And on this episode, elevated entrepreneurs, we are talking all about negotiations, and of secrets that are going to make you a phenomenal negotiator so that you can get whatever you want from whoever you want.
0:40
If this is your first time here, thank you so much for tuning in to the Elevated Entrepreneur Podcast. And if you’ve been a longtime listener, thank you, too. I’d love for you to check out the elevated entrepreneur website, which is at elevatedentrepreneur.fm, where you’ll get access to a whole lot of shownotes transcriptions and even some other amazing episodes that you may not have already heard.
1:02
And I have a very special guest joining me on this podcast to talk about negotiations. And his name is Prakash trigone. Prakash is a phenomenal executive coach and leadership trainer, as well as a sales enabler and educator.
1:16
He’s also accredited as a coach from the International Coaching Federation holds an MBA in marketing, as well as a Master of Science in psycho neurobics. He is fluent in NLP and love to train people on the topics of negotiation, conflict resolution, team leadership and change management.
1:36
Prakash has also facilitated in person workshops, so big brands such as Hilton, rotana, and Salesforce, and I’m super excited that he’s here. So I can’t wait to get this conversation started. So grab your headphones, grab a cup of coffee, turn the volume up, and let’s cue the music.
1:54
You’re listening to the elevated entrepreneur podcast, a podcast designed to help retailers restauranteurs and entrepreneurs simplify business operations and to use modern technology to elevate their business. Here’s your host, Dhiren Bhatia.
2:12
Prakash, a very big welcome to the Elevated Entrepreneur Podcast.
2:17
Very happy to be with you during on this show. I’m so happy. Thank you so much for having me over.
2:22
Thank you for being so cooperative and accepting my invitation to come last minute, this is such a random conversation. But I couldn’t resist having you because you brought up such an interesting topic in our conversation, which was negotiation, which I just can’t wait to get into with you. But before I do that, can you please help me introduce yourself to the audience?
2:42
Okay, so it’s good to introduce you with this particular idea and the subject on negotiations. But I come from a family that’s, you know, business people. So probably from the time I gained my consciousness, I’ve been seeing them negotiating. Alright, so yes, we hail back from a place called Ooty. It’s a queen of Hill stations in India.
3:04
That’s where I was born and bred, my family. My parents are hindis. And so yes, that’s what makes us really strong negotiators and business people. I remember getting to working with my dad in the shop, probably when I was eight to 10 years old, doing stuff after school, come back, help them out and do some interesting stuff.
3:24
So that’s where it all started off. And then I’ve grown to get into sales after that, in my career, lots of selling. And that brought me to, you know, a lot of beautiful stuff that I did for organizations. And now for my own self as I started my own. I mean, I started this entrepreneur journey about 10 years ago.
3:41
And this particular one skills negotiation, has been helping me immensely. And so that’s what I feel is so important for people that I should go back and help them to learn. So I’m also an adjunct faculty with SPG, and School of Global Management where, you know, we have this particular topic called negotiation and conflict resolution. And so that’s one of my pet subjects that I love to teach.
4:05
Love it. And I also know that you’re an amazing facilitator, you’re in a very amazing trainer, I’ve seen you in action. And I love the way you hold the room, and can’t wait to get started upon the topic of negotiation. Specifically, like you mentioned already, negotiation skills for entrepreneurs.
4:22
That is such an amazing topic to get into. I’m an entrepreneur, my family’s been into entrepreneurship for many years. I don’t think we learned properly, it was negotiation. And it’s not a science. I think it’s an art. And I can’t wait to ask you lots of questions. So I guess the first question that I have for you is, what is negotiation for you mean?
4:41
Okay, good. And I like to circle back to what you mentioned in terms of the facilitation I do and it requires negotiation skills. Let me tell you during everything we do, requires negotiation skills, because we are talking about relationships.
4:56
We’re talking about sharing ideas and seeing how we can connect sends people to doing things the way we think that should be done. So especially looking at entrepreneurs, then they have these dreams, they got goals, they want to expand, they want to scale.
5:09
They want to look for people who can come on board and support them. They want to build a whole market. So negotiation is the most important subject for them. And not just for them. I think everybody people in corporates or you know, parents, with their teenagers with the kids.
5:23
I mean, you’re driving on Sheikh Zayed road and you’re negotiating, which particular lane should I go into the somebody who comes and just tailgates you you think, Okay, should I let her go Geico? Or should I not let the guy go? You’re negotiating? I think, in every second, we are negotiating. So I think if we become masters of negotiations, we become masters in life.
5:42
Absolutely agree. 100%. Agree. And I guess the second question I want to ask you about negotiation is where does an entrepreneur get started?
5:50
Firstly, an entrepreneur must understand the importance value of negotiation, and also realize that negotiation or about haggling is no more bargaining. So they have to take out all those mindsets, probably when we were, you know, with our parents, that was during our age, we’d be in one of the stations on the railway.
6:05
And we’ve been, you know, trying to haggle with a porter or we go to buy some stuff and be haggling with our shop salesperson. But that’s not negotiation. And so many of us just kind of even the entrepreneurs, they say, you know, it’s not my cup of tea, because they’ve got this wrong mindset about negotiation, they’ve not seen it that way.
6:22
And you did mention that it is an art, fantastic, it is an art. But let me tell you, a lot of science is now gone into it. And there are so many theories behind it in terms of how you can use certain methodologies that have proven results.
6:37
And so when people start understanding the importance of it, and the fact that negotiation is not just haggling with people, but there’s a lot of science behind it, then I think the entrepreneurs will start learning it and they start knowing that, okay, if I use the right method, I will get the right results. And so they want those results, hey, here’s a beautiful method to follow.
6:53
And if they know that there’s a method, they will start opening themselves up, so they must start having a positive attitude towards negotiations.
7:01
Awesome. So Prakash, I want to ask you this. You’re absolutely right. Part science part art, there is so much going into the science of negotiation. What’s the first tip that an entrepreneur should know about negotiation?
7:14
And I just one thing, I love that you said, it’s not about haggling. So I love that. I think a lot of us take that as the starting point. But now that we know that what’s the first step for an entrepreneur?
7:25
All right, firstly, remember, you don’t get what you deserve. You get what you ask for, or you get what you negotiate for. So powerful. Yeah. So it’s so important for us to understand this. And therefore, ask, you got to learn to be shameless in that space.
7:45
Many times we negotiate with ourselves before we go out and ask, we say, well, I let better not ask because this person will think about this guy is going to judge me, what happens if the person rejects me? Or sometimes you just say, well, I’ll not ask, he might know what I need, you just presume that the guy will give it to you. And I’ve seen this happen many times.
8:03
I mean, I have done this mistake. And that’s how I’m all the stuff that we’ll share with you is all through personal experience, right? So there was a time when I went to my boss and asked him that, you know, I actually wanted to know if you guys can give me a car? He said, Yeah, we can.
8:20
So why when can you have it? Well, you tell me when you want it, I say we will have started moving around in the market. So if I can have it about the next week’s time, I would be great. Yeah, sure, you can have it. I mean, we will always be ready to give you a car, Prakash, we just thought you didn’t want one.
8:33
Amazing.
8:34
Just ask.
8:35
Unbelievable.
8:35
So I think it’s very important. Yeah, very important. We got to just ask, you just don’t know what the other people are ready to give you unless you ask.
8:38
And you certainly very interesting that you said, you know, we have all this emotional baggage that we carry in our head, even before we get to asking, should I ask him maybe he already knows what I’m asking to ask for?
8:55
What is he going to think if I asked for this? That is such an important statement to remember that you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you asked for?
9:03
Yes, just to add that, which will help you to just get free from that emotional baggage that will help you to go and actually ask. It’s such a beautiful thing. And I’ve learned this from I would call him by Guru negotiation, Herb Cohen. He says, Look at negotiations as a game care, but not that much care for it.
9:25
Okay, I care for the result, but not so much. Because if you’re too attached to it, you lose perspective. So you care. And that’s why he says and I’ve also seen that when you negotiate for yourself, you’re not so good. When you negotiate to others. You’re fantastic. Why? Because you have nothing much to lose. So look at it as a game care, but not that much.
9:44
I want to ask you when you say care, but not that much. How does one draw a line? Because like you said, if I’m negotiating for myself, then I’m just so emotionally involved. How do I know where to stop?
9:54
Care means do all the rights. Please go and ask get all that stuff done. But be prepared that if the answer says no, that’s fair enough, it’s okay. I’m not gonna take it personally simple. It’s not the end of the world. And I’m going to hold a grudge against this person.
10:09
And I’m not going to have this feeling of oh my god, my relationship is gonna get spoiled. No, for all, you know, it might become better. Because you know what you’re doing, by not asking for by not voicing yourself in terms of what you really want. You are sitting there holding this baggage in your heart, alright.
10:25
And therefore, in that particular relationship, there’s always going to be that space where you’re not your whole self. So what’s the point of a relationship? I’m not complete, but I’m still with you. visa vie, I know I can be fully complete, because now I’ve asked for what I wanted.
10:40
And whatever the answer is, okay, I’m gonna go with it. But at least I’m not coming full. And I’m asked you. And so I’m not just saying, I think you’re a mind reader, you should know what I want. And then I’m always holding this, you know, used to stuff in my head. And there is
10:53
Also this physical side to that. So I can imagine, like, you know, I go to someone and I ask what I really want to ask for under this, my body just heaves a sigh of relief, because I’ve now said what was in my heart in my mind, and I’ve now feeling so much lighter.
11:07
Absolutely, which is why a very important composite of negotiators is assertiveness, assertiveness, they’re polite, but yet they say what they got to say. And so we need to be able to do that. So if I want a, b and c, I need to be able to stand there and say, You know what?
11:23
I’m looking for a, b and c, I don’t say I’m looking for a, perhaps be had, if possible, see, hey, no. Why do you say that? I want a, b and c, and then let it go and see what happens. For all you know, the guy says, okay, but if you go, you know, dilly dallying about stuff, you’re not getting it.
11:42
Like your story. If you never asked for a car, you would have never gotten that car, and they were always prepared for that car. Yeah. So because I want to ask you this on this particular this tip that you shared? Do you have any insights into why we don’t say what we want? Why is it so hard to ask for it?
11:56
Definitely. So there are a lot of things like the first one, I said, people are kind of too attached to the outcome that they can’t hear or know. And so they don’t want to say they feel that you better know what I want. They kind of believe that you should understand my gestures, try and understand the culture over here.
12:13
Try understand how things are. And so they don’t ask me that. That could be one problem. The other one is the feel that it might, you know, give me a bad name? How am I going to be looked up at after this? You know, I’ve asked for something Oh, my God, they’re gonna think I’m greedy.
12:29
And so that could be another factor that we want to, you know, address. So it’s not about greed. It’s about asking what you deserve. As simple as that. It’s about just verbalizing something which is in your heart. That’s all.
12:41
And also, the other thing you mentioned, right? We think about the thing that happens to this relationship, after we ask for something that we want, we think that the relationship might be negatively affected, like you had said, and I think maybe that’s not the case, it actually may get better from there on because now you stood up for yourself.
12:57
Yeah, even if there’s some temporary, you know, because the other side sometimes can be carrying a lot of baggage themselves. And they might feel how’s that you’re asking me because nobody’s ever asked me before. And so it could create some temporary disturbance over there.
13:15
But that’s okay. And then you should be prepared for that. Because you’ve done what you got to do. And then you polite enough to accept whatever comes your way. And then slowly, but steady, the other person also will start understanding and realizing that wow, you know, this person has the courage to ask me that. And I really think that
13:30
is so true. So true. I want to ask you, based on that first tip, let’s assume that we’ve got to know in this conversation, what happens when someone says no, because they know is the big N word that we love to not hear.
13:43
Beautiful. Okay, fantastic. So here’s a second tip that actually comes to that, which is, what is it that really helps you to be very confident in your negotiations. So you need to be a good communicator, you need to have good humor, you need to have patience, you need to have good emotional intelligence while you’re negotiating.
13:59
You need to have assertiveness when negotiating, all of that stuff is critical in negotiations. But if there’s one factor, that is the USP, for any negotiator, that is called be a ti na, BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement, which means that if this negotiation doesn’t go through, if it fails, what’s my next alternative?
14:25
When you have done your homework? Well, you have an alternative, the way you negotiate will be very different. And you’re negotiating from a point of view where you understand what you’re worth. And so you’re more confident, you understand where you stand, and you’re using those standards to negotiate and so you will never be able to, you know, be at a space where you’re going to be at the mercy of them.
14:51
Because, you know, you say you know what, I’m here to do business with and I want to do business with you, and you’re clear about that. But at the back of your mind, you know that if I don’t do business with you, I have somebody else So you’re able to lay your cards very nicely and firmly. And so BATNA is critical for anybody. I remember this time when I was.
15:06
Now there’s another car on I love to travel. You know, these are the example that come I went to buy a car at one point, this was a second and it’s a used car, right? So there was this guy who was an ophthalmologist, one of these American Lebanese doctors that I went to meet.
15:21
And so he had this beautiful, very, very beautiful car, I went and saw it once. And he gave a price, he said, is non negotiable? This is the price I’m gonna give it to you. So I didn’t negotiate as well. I went to, you know, the manufacturer, I went to the showroom.
15:34
I said, Do you have these used cars, this model? This many collaborators? They had what? How much is it? They gave me a price? I said, Okay, fantastic. So I know if I don’t get that I can buy this. I went back and negotiated. And I said, Listen, I’ll use it as non negotiable. Let me tell you, I’ve got something else there for me. And I’m getting at a wonderful price.
15:52
I want to take yours because I feel its condition is beautiful. And hey, why not? Maybe you can just close the deal. And you don’t have to, you know, wait for so long, you’re disappointed a wonderful surgeon, do your job. Just give me the car at this particular price. And we got it. He signed up immediately. And I got it for 15,000 dirhams less than what he actually quoted, because I have that now. So I said, Wow, beautiful,
16:14
amazing story. I’m just completely enthralled by the story. I want to ask you some questions about this. Trump. He said, No negotiation, you didn’t negotiate. But I think what you did do with him was you showed him the pain that he might have to go through if he did not do this deal, which I think opened them up for negotiation.
16:32
That was one very important factor. So yes, you have to have that as well. You know, the way you communicate, you verbalize things is important, when you’re showing him the benefit of doing something for you. Right.
16:41
So when he sees the benefit for him, he’s not saying I’m not showing my benefit, I’m saying his benefit, unless I’ve done my homework and confident and if he says no to me, I can walk out that deal. And I’m serious about walking out of the deal. And he knows it. You know, if I don’t have any of the deal, he will see it in my eyes, they see the highs of the face, the you know, eyes, the index of the mind.
17:01
So if I’m really dilly dallying, and I’m not sure inside, he’ll see it and he’ll say You know what? Get away. You’re bluffing. Yeah, you’re bluffing. But when he saw that this guy knows what he’s talking about. He’s got a plan. He’s done his homework. Hey, go ahead. Let’s do it.
17:14
And to your point, it also helps you draw that line between not caring too much because you have a plan? Yeah, absolutely. One thing I want to ask you to go deeper into this, you said something in this earlier point about knowing your worth, yeah, any insight into knowing your work. And I think that’s such a big problem for entrepreneurs, overall. Just wanted to get your thought on that.
17:36
Beautiful. That brings me to the third principle I want to share with you, all right, because that’s a very important part. That is actually the three most important words in negotiation, the three most important, the first one is prepare. The second one is prepare, have a third one is prepare.
17:57
Right? It sounds silly, but you cannot go into negotiation without being fully prepared. It’s like walking into a battlefield unarmed, you got to know what’s your worth, which and you do some market research to try and find out you talk to people, you see who else is there, who else will buy at what price? Whatever it is, you need to go and do that.
18:15
And so you need to do that you need to try and understand what is the bad now of the person that I’m going to buy it from or I’m going to sell to if that guy does not have a deal with me, who’s the next person he wants to talk to? Who else are the people that are like me who are ready to sell and what are they selling at? What are the other alternatives people have in the market?
18:33
How different Am I from all of them. So when you know all of this, when you negotiate, you’re super smart, you know what you’re saying? And you’re well informed. And so prepare, prepare, prepare, it includes your worth is including knowing what you know, they really have in store, all that stuff has to be taken care of.
18:52
I love it. I love it. I want to ask you a question. Yeah. And this relates to me as an entrepreneur and me negotiating. Sometimes I know that I’m priced higher than my competition. If I’m priced higher than the competition already, my head’s not thinking about so many other alternatives, and so many other ifs and buts. But I know that if there’s nothing wrong with starting at a high price, I wanted to get your thought on that.
19:16
Okay, so that again, so thank you for asking questions, which really draws a lot around. That’s a, I think the most important tips that we like to share with entrepreneurs. And this is around anchoring. Alright, the principle of anchoring. What is anchoring really anchoring is about placing in the subconscious mind of the other party of figure. When you make the first offer.
19:46
Whatever the first offer is, you anchor yourself to that the whole negotiations are acting around that figure, whether we know it or not. And so that first figure is so critical for us to actually place Many a time, this big question, Should I make the opening offer? Should somebody else make the offer offering offer?
20:07
And I’ve seen so many entrepreneurs, but not just good seasoned sales guys, who will ask the other party to say, Okay, so tell me, what do you want for me? What’s your budget, you make the opening offer. And then that’s the biggest mistake you make, because now you give them an opportunity to anchor the entire negotiation based on what is their first offer.
20:25
So let’s say you want to do you pay yourself at, say, $7,000. But you give this guy an opportunity to start first, he says $1,750. Now the entire negotiation, now you subconsciously have enough bigness in one sense, suffice to saying, Oh, my God, this is what he’s looking at.
20:40
Now. I mean, of course, I can’t go to now 7000, because I’m ridiculously more than what he’s asked me. So let me go to $3,000. And so you pay yourself around that same figure. So whenever you’re given an opportunity, be the first to make that opening off. Because that will steer the entire organization in that direction.
21:00
Such a wonderful tip. Sarita as you’re scared to make the opening of a note, will he think what will she say? Let me hear their version first, and then we can negotiate. But such a powerful thing to anchor as it okay to anchor higher,
21:12
don’t do extremely ridiculously high. This is why the three words again, prepare, prepare, prepare, which means you’re able to know your worth, you understand what was their alternatives, you understand what are they going to be using your services for you also understand their business, you understand how much your business is valued for them.
21:32
All right. So if I’m going to help you, let’s say I’m a leadership coach, right there. And so if I help you in one session, and I know that, with that one session, you can go out there, and you can double your sales.
21:48
And if I find out what your sales are, and you say, You know what, I’m actually doing $200,000 Every month, and see, you know, what I want to sit with you and I can tell you that one session will double your sales, which means you’re gonna get $4,000 with my one session. Now, tell me how much is that session worth?
22:05
$400,000
22:06
before and $1,000, at least $1,000. Because without me, you still get 200,000 with me again, $4,000. So I must have that information with me. So that I can tell you listen, what you this is what you’re gonna get from me.
22:17
And so I’m just talking about, say, 20% of what you’re going to be gaining, is that worth for you? 20%. So why not? 20%? Take it. Okay, so that’s $40,000? How do you think you say, Oh, fantastic, let’s go for it. But if I don’t know that if I have a standard price, and I say I want to charge $500, for everybody I meet, the guy is going to say you know what, I don’t think I need you as my coach. Right?
22:40
We have to be smart enough in that sense. So try and understand the value that you’re going to add to that person and know that they will be ready to pay that value provided you deliver that value.
22:48
So true. You said something so interesting that there is something called pricing under your pricing you under the market, I have a story to share, I went to this one particular brand I was talking to I was very young, the company had just started. And I was pitching to them letting us implement their software system for them.
23:05
And I hear being the smart guy went in at a very lower offer, because it was enough for us not knowing that would price me out of the market because I was too low. So there is something being too low. Because the customer now like you said thinks that no, this is not what I’m looking for this offer is too low and something’s not right. Right. So be careful, be very prepare, prepare, prepare.
23:27
Let me tell you one very interesting one with with what you just mentioned, and how you can have prices outside because you went too low. I got a company who came to me and said they want to do a certain program. And it was a long program about 10 sessions they want to do for the people.
23:44
And for some reason, there was some mismatch and they didn’t want that business. Alright, my plate was full. I had a lot of stuff there. And they wanted me to do it in certain timings. And I said, You know what is not going to really help me it’s really going to make me stretch. So I said, Let me charge these guys double of what we would get to the market, and I just charged them double.
24:05
He won’t believe it. Pat comes a response saying confirm, let’s go ahead. Because short or short, I said, Oh my God. I mean, I would have never thought of pricing it that way for anybody else. So it’s interesting to see how that anchoring is such a good effect, you know, and so when I do my homework and try and understand where are they coming from? What is really my worth? How are they going to use it and how is it going to be beneficial?
24:30
I can pay myself in a way where I go a little higher than what they would normally be ready to buy it for so that there’s some cushion and margin for us to negotiate. But if I got a price which is less than what they’re willing, they will just take it and say hey take but if it’s too less and obviously like you know what they did for you they just walk with this guy. It doesn’t really kind of probably is not valuable enough for us, you know that correct case.
24:52
So, understand what the we have something called Zopa zone of possible agreement, which is you need to know your walkaway price and you need to try and understand what is their walkaway price. When you know their walkaway price, it’s fantastic. You need to peg this particular anchoring any close to the walkaway price.
25:10
You know, everybody has a walkaway price, they have a maximum point and saying, you know, I can give this guy up to $10,000 per day. For a service, for example, I can give the guy up to 10,000 words per day, you have a walkaway price, you know, I can charge anybody up to $4,000 a day, I’m happy $4,000 a day, that guy’s ready to give $10,000 a day, if you close the deal anywhere close to nine or $10,000, you’re a smart negotiator.
25:33
If they close a deal somewhere close to four or 4000 Foreign dollars, they are smart negotiators. So the zone of possible agreement is there and you always anchor it to their walkaway price.
25:44
And how do we do that? Prepare, prepare, prepare the three most important one. Absolutely. Love it. I want to ask you this question progression when we are negotiating and I’ve anchored here, I could hire there is some back and forth. There is some giving and taking. What are your thoughts on that? Is it okay to be giving and taking and how much giving and taking should have?
26:04
Okay. That’s that’s very important. And this brings us to our probably think the last tip that we like to really share with entrepreneurs is something called the negotiators dilemma. And the dilemma is should I be competing? Where should I be taking more? Or should I be cooperating with should I be giving more?
26:25
And that’s the classic dilemma that we have. You know, the guy’s asking me for a discount. Okay, let me give it to the guys asked me for flexibility in payment terms. Let me give him the guy’s asking me to give me a little bit more value for what I’ve actually given him. So you’re cooperating with everything?
26:37
Why are you cooperating because you believe that if I cooperate today, the guy’s going to cooperate back tomorrow. Don’t give me more. He’s got to be continuous. Because that’s how people say, right? You don’t just want me I’ll give you continuous business. So hey, there’s a promise of cooperate, I cooperate. Now there could be the case where you may want to compete.
26:54
And that happens, especially when I’m cooperating, you’re competing, I cooperate again, but you are competing, which means you don’t deliver on what you tell me, you just take away everything from me. And then you come back to me for more. And so I’m saying, You know what I gave you one, I give you the second one. And now I think you know, let’s play fair, I’m not giving any more. In fact, I want you to now give me something if you want the same thing from so you can competitive them.
27:19
So this particular demo Should I give? Should I take more? Should I give more that’s always got to be there. One of the most important things is to try and learn the other side, learn what is their negotiation style? Are they very competitive? Or are they cooperative, or sometimes they have different things they can face from so they could be sometimes they can start by being cooperative.
27:43
And they can become very competitive, because they see the way you negotiate. Or they could start being very competitive. And they see that this guy is quite cooperative, they will switch and become cooperative as well. Or they might just be whether you’re competitive, a cooperative, I will always be competitive.
27:59
Or they could also be whether you’re competitive or cooperative, I’ll always be corporate. So there are various types that you might find. And so negotiation is actually this dynamic of trying to learn the other side. And then you are adjusting your negotiation style, so that you influence them.
28:16
And what do you want from them, you want to influence them to start cooperating, because if they cooperate, and I cooperate, which means now we are looking at both interests, I want your interest, you are my interest, we’re cooperating with each other. That’s the best place to be for any negotiator. Because then it’s Win Win, till such time as either Win, lose or lose win.
28:35
And that’s not going to have long term sustainability, agreed any relationship, whether it’s to do with price, whether it’s to do with products, whether it’s to do with human relationships, if you’re always only expecting the other person, as an entrepreneur, you always want them to help you give you favors, do this for me do this for me.
28:55
And I’m only going to talk to you and I want something. How long is that relations going to be sustained? You say you’re an opportunist. But then if you’re there, you try and also understand that no matter who the other person is, they also have needs and wants, and you try to help them and support them, then it’s a two way I’m also giving uncopyable you’re also cooperating, that’s a beautiful way to sustain any relationship. And we should do that.
29:18
I love that knowing either you’re competing or cooperating. I think that’s a great way to turn around that because I think also what happens as entrepreneurs, we get into the heat of the moment, we get into negotiating, and we’re just feeling like this guy’s taking and taking you’re just asking for it.
29:33
But now that you’ve said that, and you’ve put a definition around it, find out if he’s cooperating or if he’s competing, that I think is very, very important.
29:41
Yeah, and influence him. So if the guy is cooperating, you continue cooperating because otherwise if the guy is cooperating and you start competing, you’re influencing him wrongly and negatively. Sooner or later, the guy is going to start competing. But if that guy’s competing, and if you constantly keep cooperating, you’re going to lose everything.
29:59
So you go To see, okay, fine, I start by cooperating, try to influence the guy, he’s not going to influence. So then you use a carrot and stick both methods. So now he’s not listening to me cooperating, I’m better start competing with him as well. And I compete with him till I just influence him to come back to this place.
30:14
If I don’t influence him, then I compete. he competes, that’s perfectly fine. But otherwise, I’m gonna lose, and he’s gonna win constantly.
30:22
I’m sure there are like personalities in here too, right? Like someone who likes to play these games. Yeah. Have you seen?
30:28
Yeah. So there are various personalities. Yes. So there’s, there are people who are slow to anger, which means they’re sorry, they cooperate with you many times. Even if you’re competing with them, they’ll cooperate, they’ll cooperate in court. But if you constantly keep competing to them, they’ll start getting angry slowly. So they call the slow to anger people.
30:45
And the opposite of that is the slow to trust people, the slow to trust people. They don’t trust you immediately, right. So whether you compete or cooperate, they will compete with you. You cooperate again, they will compete with you because they’re slow to trust. But the third time they see this guy still cooperating, they’ll change. And then you have the grim triggers.
31:04
And the grim triggers will be the ones who will compete so they’ll cooperate with you. So when you cooperate with them, right, so I’m cooperating with you, they’ll cooperate, I cooperate, cooperate. But the moment they see me competing, they will start competing.
31:19
Then, no matter how many times you start going and cooperating, they will never ever cooperate, because they are grim triggers the moment they’ve been triggered on that direction, they will not turn back.
31:30
So we got to be careful who we’re talking to be very careful in that particular space. And then you have people who are the tit for tat, you compete, they compete, you cooperate, they cooperate, you compete the company to cooperate, they cooperate, they do that.
31:42
It’s a funny game. Yeah,
31:45
that’s the whole dynamic of negotiation. So there are so but as I said, it’s a science as well as an art. So you got to do a lot of this study, you just don’t just go there and start haggling thinking, this is what negotiation is all about.
31:56
There’s a lot of thinking that has to go to the game. There’s a lot of happening on the table, this thing that you do before getting out of the table. There are things that you get on the table as well, while you’re negotiating and see how you can actually move northeast towards win win. I
32:10
love it. I love it. Prakash, this has been a phenomenal conversation with you, we have unpacked so much about such a simple topic negotiation. And like you said at the beginning of this conversation, we think of negotiation as haggling. But my God, there is so much underneath it. This is brilliant. I want to ask you, Prakash, as we start to wrap up, where can people find you? On LinkedIn? Where do you prefer people to find you? Well, okay,
32:36
Prakash Shivani, that’s on LinkedIn, and Prakash jigani. There’s a podcast I’ve also got, which is called metamorphosis. So people can come and listen to the podcast, lots of stuff on negotiation, lots of things over there, selling and building businesses.
32:53
I love it. We’ll make sure we link to both of the LinkedIn pages and the podcasts in our show notes. Contest. Thank you so much for being on help me. Really appreciate it.
33:01
Thank you Dhiren, it’s been such a pleasure you won’t believe.
33:07
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33:28
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33:54
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